Who are the women in this video? Who are the producers?

23 Comments on Who are the women in this video? Who are the producers?

Michael Whiteacre on Tue, 13th Dec 2011 4:52 pm


To the best of my knowledge, that is NOT secret “unreleased” Behind-the-Scenes footage. I wonder what the Behind-The-Scenes footage of those scenes really show — like, perhaps, that the performers were unharmed and pleased with the scene? Lubben was 100% wrong in her criticism of Anna Span’s video (that the performer “hated it” and was obviously in pain). The real BTS footage showed a performer who herself suggested the action in the scene that Lubben assumed was abusive, and was elated before, during and after.

Video like that can be edited a hundred different ways. We don’t know — absent context — whether the performers were coached to play up the “abusive” pro emotional aspects. What I do know is there’s not a single reputable producer in the industry who would release something like that without also releasing the BTS footage showing consent as a CYA move.

I’ve seen lots of contestants cry on camera during various intense “challenge” TV shows, and on Fear Factor. I’d like to see a video compilation of moments of extreme TV show contestants breaking down from strain, anxiety, heartbreak or exhaustion on camera. “Shocking Footage of Contestants Abused on Extreme TV.”

Beth on Tue, 13th Dec 2011 5:56 pm


I think it’s important not to forget, while we defend porn, that abuse DOES happen.

I’m curious Michael how you would know whether this is BTS material, considering you can’t identify any of the girls (I’m assuming if you could you would be talking to them).

We can’t pretend that nothing is wrong in this industry; what we need to do is work hard to determine how to improve the safety of the industry. it’s people like shelley who promote boycotting or even criminalizing porn, who ACTUALLY cause the most harm, because they perpetuate every stereotype about the industry that keeps shit the way it is. We need to encourage people to find RESPECT for this industry, and to start taking performers as seriously as other skilled professionals. we need to break through the wall of fear that keeps a lot of us, myself included, from reporting on-set assault. sure, i did amateur shit and obviously i wasn’t working for a “reputable producer…” but there are a LOT of people who are NOT reputable producers who are still producing porn, producing a lot of it, and hurting girls. The sooner we acknowledge the good AND the bad of the industry, the sooner we can start to correct it!!!

Anthony Kennerson on Tue, 13th Dec 2011 6:08 pm


Julie:

This is nothing more than the antiporn equivalent of the antiabortion “live dead fetuses” propaganda, designed to manipulate raw emotions and sweep away logic in a flood of blind rage.

So, you are going to tell me, Shelley, that in an industry where hundreds, if not thousands, of women engage in mutually consensual sex with equally consenting men, you are going to focus on the — maybe — FIVE or so incidents where a scene may go terribly awry, where a woman sometimes might get manipulated into doing a scene she wasn’t comfortable with that temporarily injures her??

And THAT’S going to be the main point of your campaign, Shelley?

SERIOUSLY????

Yeah, any producer who allows that kind of nonsense on their sets should be sued and even indicted for accessory to rape. Does that mean that any and all porn producers who produce sex scenes should be held liable and executed for the mendacity of a select few??

That is called “collective punishment”…it’s also called straight up BULL PUCKEY.

Also..why in the HELL should we believe Lubben’s word that this is what takes place in a porn shoot?? For all that I know, that could have been from someone’s personal camcorder, or some underground private tapes of actual rapes taking place which somehow Shelley grafted into this “rape porn” crapaganda effort.

In addition, there are plenty of legitimate stories from legitimate performers about times where they have been temporarily injured by bad porn scenes gone horribly wrong. None of them have the political agenda or the mendacity or the totally whack ideology that Shelley Lubben has.

This isn’t to say that there aren’t renegade producers or simply sick people who will use porn as a vehicle to manipulate girls into questionable scenes. But, perspective and context still matters, and what Shelley Lubben is doing with this particular video is not enlightening people on the realities of what performers face. It is blatant, gross, over Mount Everest-grade emotional assault and battery, designed to fuel the slut-burning, sex-hating mob.

I’ll leave it to better investigators to find out where the original “scenes” came from and who the affected actors are..but I’m not expecting Shelley to name any names. That would bring her way too close to some accountability for her acts…and we all know how she stands on that.

Anthony

Anthony Kennerson on Tue, 13th Dec 2011 6:34 pm


Ahhh…Beth??

None of us have ever denied that there are bad actors, renegades, predators, and outright assholes in the modern day porn industry.

Nor have we ever said that performers don’t have bad experiences, even dangerous trysts.

But, when someone who is known to be a bold face liar and manipulator, whom has a history of bending, if not breaking, the truth to fit her radical agenda, puts out a propaganda video reducing every and all porn to the absolute worst form of rape, then forgive us if our BS meters don’t ring like tornado sirens.

Also…since it is Lubben that is making the charges, it should be Lubben that should be questioned about who these performers are, what shoots they were at, and who were the producers forcing them to do this. It is NOT the responsibility or Michael Whiteacre or anyone else to disprove Lubben’s charges; it is her responsibility to verify them with actual evidence.

I will agree with you that the industry overall has done a piss poor job of self protection and of defending their talent in the midst of such assaults as Lubben’s, and they certainly need to take more substantial steps to protect performers from predators.

But, to acknowledge that abuse does indeed happen is one thing; to simply allow a fascist liar like Shelley Lubben (and The Acolyte Manipulator That Will Remain Unnamed Here) to control the terms of the debate and throw around their crapaganda is something else entirely.

We do need active/former performers who aren’t fundamentalist antiporn holy rollersto speak out against abusive acts and actors in porn. That’s why Julie is here, and why clown acts like Shelley Lubben can’t be allowed to control the mike.

Forgive me for the tone, Beth…I’m not mad at you at all; I’m just mad.

Anthony

Michael Whiteacre on Tue, 13th Dec 2011 6:56 pm


@Beth, I said I thought it wasn’t “to the best of my knowledge.” In my opinion, it resembles a hard gonzo scene or perhaps raw “extra footage” that producers sometimes include as a DVD extra.

Absent the contextual information — title, producer, location, performers, date, and BTS/CYA content — this footage could be anything.

In addition, they’ve used video filters on the footage to give it a 16mm/snuff movie kind of look, in order to make it seem extra seedy, and possible surreptitiously recorded. Why add any filters at all (except to blur out the nudity)? One wouldn’t present evidence in court this way.

I don’t claim that abuse does not happen. I asserted that “there’s not a single reputable producer in the industry who would release something like [this video] without also releasing the BTS footage showing consent as a CYA move.”

Furthermore, Shelley Lubben is possibly the LEAST reliable source of factual information on the planet since Bagdad Bob. If this video does indeed portray actual abuse, then letting that lying fraud run with it provides the worst possible chance for justice.

Michael Whiteacre on Tue, 13th Dec 2011 7:37 pm


I have just been informed that the scenes in this video are all stolen from efukt clips. The content is from Duke Skywalker’s “Facial Abuse” and JM Productions “Porn Most Outrageous Outtakes.” This is not “secret footage the porn industry doesn’t want you to see.”

Michael Whiteacre on Tue, 13th Dec 2011 8:21 pm


One clip is “Whoregasm” Date: 9.6.11, from JM’s “Porn’s Most Outrageous Outtakes Vol. 2″; another is “Dude Upstages Everyone at Gangbang” Date: 8.3.11; the “Facial Abuse” scene is from “Pornstar Meltdown” 8.21.09 – her name is “Ellie.”

Sometimes It Really IS That Easy….The Ministress’ Latest Attempt At Crapaganda Blows Up In Her Face | Red Garter Club Blog (Version 3.2) on Tue, 13th Dec 2011 10:58 pm


[...] a video compilation of moments of extreme TV show contestants breaking down from strain, anxiety, heartbreak or exhaustion on camera. “Shocking Footage of Contestants Abused on Extreme [...]

Brian on Tue, 13th Dec 2011 11:40 pm


After reading this, the comments, and watching the video, I think it is safe to say that most everyone would agree that the anti-porn movement is not above distorting facts to get people on their side. I believe this video is no different.

I think this point has been made already when it is mentioned that no information has been given that would aid in the prevention from the abuse the video claims to exist. It seems more like a scare tactic to get the uninformed to rally to the cause of the anti-porn movement and close the industry for good.

I think the real question this blog article asks is why does the niche of porn exist where performers are treated in such a manner? (In fact I believe it was actually asked in another post but wasn’t actually answered)

In understanding why it exists I think back to the earliest porn I had seen up to those that were more recent; along with porn-related documentaries that have popped up from time to time. It would seem to me, and I believe one documentary had said as much, that porn takes the society view of sex and gives you insight on what people are doing but not talking about. First you had blowjobs, anal/oral sex, and the female orgasm. Once those things were more acceptable to talk about the movies went on to alternate lifestyles; swinging, BDSM, etc. These days it seems that people, mostly women themselves, are realizing that there are some women who don’t mind getting rough; it started with spanking and hair pulling (not yanking; holding it taut) then just progressed from there (one can infer as much from the less extreme versions of the content in the video; Vivid’s Rough Sex series for example). Meanwhile there’s the black sheep element that goes to the extreme.

That, at least, is my take on the “why”.

The follow-up question would seem to naturally be about the performers themselves. All those questions though have likely been made about all performers in the porn industry. So I’m left with going to my all encompassing idea that if the people involved consented with full knowledge of what was going to happen then who are we to decide what they do or don’t do. And if they decide such activity is not what they want to do they should feel empowered enough not to do it; without fear of what may happen to them.

Julie Meadows on Wed, 14th Dec 2011 1:14 am


All of this is good discussion. I thank you for taking the time.

And thank you Michael for getting actual info!

Right, I ask the question about actual info because, without knowing who is shot, we don’t know if it’s a video submitted to her by an amateur pornographer in Birmingham, Alabama. It’s still ripe for discussion, but if some guy is shooting his first video with some buddies, it’s not “Los Angeles porn” and would have to be addressed in a different way since she’s posing it as all porn production in L.A.

Also, within the first few years of working in L.A., someone asked me to be in a film called “Cry Babies.” “You don’t have to cry,” he said. “We’ll put Visine in your eyes and you’ll pretend.” I respectfully declined, but because of that incident, I know that someone was making product that catered to the idea that a woman was enduring pain through anal sex, though the producers were willing to help me fake it with the help of Visine.

What bothers me about this kind of imagery is hard to explain, but I’ll try soon. Bottom line is, we have to know where the footage is coming from to follow the source and even know what questions to ask about what we’re seeing. Lubben has no sense of responsibility when she puts out these images and doesn’t describe it in more detail. Like the banner of the woman with a taped mouth and mascara running down her face; hands bound in rope. This banner took up space on the header of her site for a long time, but unless you looked really close, you wouldn’t know it was a picture of her. A staged picture of herself posing bound and crying and scared. We need to know who these people are who are making real product that may really hurt people. Giving some info for shock value is just confusing.

And then there’s JM Productions. Again. They come up a lot where this topic is concerned.

Beth on Wed, 14th Dec 2011 8:56 am


i’m baffled that my statement has been misinterpreted as defense of shelley’s latest propaganda release.

let’s revisit facts about shelley:

~she siphons money out of her charity by also running her own “business” – shelley lubben communications – and paying herself for all of her hard work.

~she has gone as far as providing drugs to at least one but likely more girls she was “helping,” as well as re-writing girls’ biographies and telling her girls what to state, effectively seizing the voices of the women she is supposedly concerned about.

~she testifies before everyone from religious congregations to congress, using false statistics and a personal story laden with contradictions and accusations so malicious that her own brother has felt it necessary to come forward in order to address.

shelley often paints a picture of an abuser that actually looks very much like HERSELF. if we consider her a part of the industry, based on the fact that she uses industry material and gets included in industry conversations despite being an unqualified pathological liar, SHE IS one of the people in the industry who is victimizing vulnerable women!!

not only do i oppose shelley, but i believe she needs to be prosecuted for a plethora of crimes ranging from fraudulent nonprofit activity to slander to whatever giving people drugs without appropriate medical license is called. if it weren’t for the fact that i want to generate more criticism of lubben generated in order to get more critical voices showing up higher on google search results lists for her, i might argue that even talking about anything shelley does serves to validate her too much.

what i was saying is that this video is no more a threat than anything else shelley has done, and we’re having the wrong conversation by trying to strip it of its validity, considering it’s coming from such an invalid source. i felt like the amount of attention we have been giving her via this conversation was giving her WAY MORE credibility and validation than she deserves. however, after reading Brian & Julie’s comments, i do see more valid topics than the two i initially deducted from watching this video (stopping pcf and making porn safer), so i can understand now why there has been so much attention given to the details, and i have to take back any assertions that it’s not worth the attention.

it’s very important to remember that as Brian said, some people LOVE BDSM and what looks like pain is actually pleasure. as a hardcore sub, i constantly have to defend myself against everyone from doctors to passersby who might be alarmed by marks i’m unable to cover up. i was just at the doctor for some cervix-swabbing and i probably had to restate that i was safe and not in need of professional intervention about eighteen times. in my head it went without saying that a lot of the footage looks like kink play out of context. but it’s really very important to acknowledge that, because so often people from shelley lubben to gail dines misrepresent kinky women by portraying us as victims. i’m really glad that was brought up, and i think it’s maybe one of the most important topics raised in this entire conversation.

i also commend julie for pointing out that this footage could easily be from outside LA. this is REALLY significant. i was assaulted on a set in boston. not only would footage from amateur sets in states without professional industry organization misrepresent the LA industry, but the fact that it is so much easier to assault performers where there are no professional standards is important evidence in support of everything shelley campaigns against. shutting down the LA porn industry as shelley asys she would like to would lead to increased demand for unregulated amateur content and put more performers at more risk. it’s very important to remember that the antis who claim to be concerned about performer safety are actually posing the greatest threat to performers’ safety.

i continue to assert just because i see so little discussion of it, however, that part of the pro-porn industry conversation needs to be about making the industry safer. if we talked more about it, in fact, that would only prove shelley and pcf are even more inaccurate in their claims.

Michael Whiteacre on Wed, 14th Dec 2011 9:16 am


Beth, we can only respond to the evidence we’re presented. If we can dismiss Lubben’s latest video – and we surely can — then we are back to arguing hypotheticals.

Dawson on Wed, 14th Dec 2011 6:33 pm


Point I was making before. The Anti-porn people are themselves Pornographers for their target audience/market.

If Shelley came to me with a few bucks I could write her a realistic script about abuse on a porn set. Make a few phone calls and hire some actresses, buy a bag of onions to get some realistic tears–not Rocket Science.

Anybody remember the original “Hardcore” movie with George C. Scott as the Daddy of the run away daughter who he has to save from snuf films, at the typical last second Hollywood ending and everybody goes Home and lives happily ever after.

Shelly is a Puritanical Pornographer.

Michael Whiteacre on Wed, 14th Dec 2011 7:47 pm


That’s exactly what she is, Dawson. And a piss-poor one at that.

Christina on Wed, 14th Dec 2011 8:23 pm


As I mentioned in another story you posted. If all this stuff is so vile and they have the proof, then why not just release what movie this stuff is from. She doesn’t want to do that though because she doesn’t want to admit that not every porn producer and performer is like how she likes to portray them.

Also, as Michael mentioned, if one of the clips is from a JM production then I would believe that would happen. JM has a history of some messed up stuff on their sets and it is why I don’t do any business with them at all.

Brian on Thu, 15th Dec 2011 4:28 am


@Beth: I think the first step of making the industry safer would be to call out the people that give it a bad name.

And as for the conversation about it, it’s definitely happening here; can’t say if that’s true anywhere else.

Beth on Thu, 15th Dec 2011 6:40 am


Brian i am so with you… But i think when it comes to shelley… we can do more than call her out. I don’t understand why shelley is still out there – there is enough concrete evidence to get pcf investigated, and if it was, it would be shut down.

i’m very curious why people in the industry are so critical of her, yet has anyone reported any of her illegal activity?! we have enough evidence. she could be shut down by now. it frustrates me that nobody has gone yet to either a lawyer or the Better Business Bureau or even DSS since she has children living with her… we talk about how terrible she is, yet we all know that she is doing and has done is bad enough to get her serious legal trouble and remove her from the adult industry conversation for good. if i were a california resident, i know i would have already gone to all of the above. i can’t comprehend why she is still out there, when all of us know that she has egregiously violated a plethora of laws.

we need to do more than call this woman out. i used to work for gail dines, whom is the academic/intelligent/secular version of shelley. there is nothing you can do beyond critique gail dines because she has never and would never break the law. but shelley clearly poses a serious threat to the safety of vulnerable performers and her own children alike. we can do more than call this woman out – we can stop her. someone in california just has to step up to the plate and walk through those doors, sit down and present the information. largely thanks to the devil and shelley lubben, we now know that this woman is more than an anti-porn activist. she is a dangerous, malicious, f.e.l.o.n.

alex on Thu, 15th Dec 2011 7:17 am


Defending industry rights and making it safe for workers would follow the logic of any regulated segment of our economy. Users justifying personal entertainment choices and the right to indulge themselves as they wish and others just wanting to wish it away and dream of a world that doesn’t exist: It’s an interesting study in human psychology and animal behavior… the feeding and punishing of normal chemical drives. Players will play and fools will be foolish = $$$. It’s interesting what people see in the mirror.

Things are good… still throwing pearls to swine: pigs will eat almost anything

Michael Whiteacre on Thu, 15th Dec 2011 8:59 am


Beth, there are currently several actions in the works against Mrs. Lubben and her accomplices and co-conspirators at Pink Cross Foundation. The first is of course the restraining order filed by an alleged victim — on December 21st a judge will determine whether it should be made permanent.

Unfortunately, members (and former members) of the adult industry are not the most litigious people in the world — not to mention, Lubben is a bully who retaliates viciously against those who “betray” or speak out against her — but push has definitely come to shove at this point.

sdatim on Thu, 15th Dec 2011 9:30 am


Having worked personally with CPS and other protective agencies, as well as been asked to expert witness in cases involving the removal of children from potentially unfit parents, I’d say it may very well be the case that there have been reports filed already, but don’t hold your breath if you’re expecting them to jail someone or remove children from any household.

I’ve had *real* cases of *positive* drug screens in infants (read as 2 years old or less, I’ll let you guess how the screen becomes positive), where CPS’s literal response to us is, “Oh is that all, long as its not something hard like cocaine. . .” (read as: no action taken against the parents)

I can tell you of other cases where a child comes in having *taken* something “left out” by the family so critical that when placing the IV the nurse is sweating and asks me, “how long do I have to place this IV.” I responded, “you have 30 seconds before I place a central in his jugular or subclavian and administer the narcan. . .” Literally, the moment I was needing to intubate the child due to hypoxia, the narcan hit his system and he revived as one raised from the dead.

There are countless similar stories that occur on a literally daily basis in my work. . . despite the fact that, I assure you, the calls *always* go out when I feel a child or *anyone* vulnerable is in danger or being abused in any way, its sad to say that the right decisions aren’t always made by those who should hold these individuals accountable. :/

These cases are just to show that in spite the amount of negligence or *gross* negligence* present, *how difficult* it is to remove a child from a household, especially from the mother. Sometimes it seems that she literally has to be not only on drugs, but on hard IV drugs, in jail, and beating them simultaneously for someone to act!

No doubt, we all can and should be a voice for the voiceless and vulnerable, but it sounds like from what Michael indicates, reports can and have been filed already by those who feel criminal activity is present.

Those reports always have more weight when they come from individuals who:

1) have direct, personal, ongoing, 1st hand involvement
2) are not compromised themselves
3) have no clear motivation for secondary gain
and 4) have no obvious conflict of interest in the matter.

My guess, and please correct me if I’m wrong, is that you may be hard-pressed to find individuals who meet all four criterion who’d be willing and/or able to file a complaint.

Julie Meadows on Thu, 15th Dec 2011 10:32 am


Beth:

not only would footage from amateur sets in states without professional industry organization misrepresent the LA industry, but the fact that it is so much easier to assault performers where there are no professional standards is important evidence in support of everything shelley campaigns against. shutting down the LA porn industry as shelley asys she would like to would lead to increased demand for unregulated amateur content and put more performers at more risk. it’s very important to remember that the antis who claim to be concerned about performer safety are actually posing the greatest threat to performers’ safety.
i continue to assert just because i see so little discussion of it, however, that part of the pro-porn industry conversation needs to be about making the industry safer. if we talked more about it, in fact, that would only prove shelley and pcf are even more inaccurate in their claims.

Exactly.

And Michael is right. Not only are few adult industry workers litigious, the people who should be the most offended by her are rarely aware of the people working against them because they’re busy working. I think it’s a side effect of this industry that you go out of your way to not know what people think about what you do because it’s easy enough to assume the worst. I had built my personal barriers pretty thoroughly as an actress. I never sought out information about the industry or my name online until after I got out. And only then, years after.

sdatim on Thu, 15th Dec 2011 2:38 pm


my emoticon appeared as a smile when it was supposed be a “frustrated” face. . . I’m not sure why. lo siento.

Beth on Thu, 15th Dec 2011 6:37 pm


michael, i’m very glad to see that things are beginning to unfold in the legal arena. you bring something very important up when you state that people in the adult industry are not the most litigious, and shelley lubben is a bully. — organizations exist specifically to assist sex workers with legal issues, and if you guys have not yet pursued that resource, you know exactly where to find me to get all the info. there are people out there (mostly in new york, but DEF in cali as well) actively fighting for sex worker rights across the spectrum of legal to illegal sub-professions, because while protection for people in the adult industry should be no different than the level of protection afforded to people in most other industries, (as alex said), it is often very.

@sdatim – that is off topic, but i am flabbergasted by how weak CPS is in your state (are you in CA?) it’s incredible how quickly and diligently assertions of child neglect or abuse are intervened upon – i have many friends who have had their kids taken. in MA if you pick up the phone and make the report, the child WILL be taken until the state is satisfied that the child is safe with the parent(s) or elsewhere. it’s amazing the differences between services varying by state.

also, as an aside, i can tell you i have spoken to at least one individual who meets all of the criteria to file a report that you listed. and i think that’s why the legal ball is finally rolling – enough people have been hurt by her to come together and say enough is e-fucking-nough!

@julie, it’s incredible to me how different our industry experiences are. i don’t know if it’s because we have to work underground in new england or if it’s just that i never meet the girls who are all work and no activism, but there are TONS of out sex workers here who are very vocal and active. sex work is a popular topic discussed in all our local papers, and in the one year i worked formally in the activism ring via Sex Workers Outreach Project i was interviewed for nearly a dozen media outlets. we work very hard in new england and most of all new york, on everything from challenging laws that target sex workers and/or put us at risk, to providing self defense and know-your-rights trainings, pro bono legal services, free anonymous testing, needle exchange, narcan distributors, and full range of sex supplies (every brand, material, size, flavor, color and surface type imaginable), and for some segments of the community, free counseling. i wonder why it is that in one of the only places where the sex industry is legitimate, people are less litigious. this is as off-topic as my statements on CPS, but i would love to study the ways in which sex workers have more resources available to them where they are legally tolerated and professionally organized versus where they are generally not. i was so shocked when you weren’t familiar with $pread magazine, but it seems like east & west coast sex industries are completely different. i know girls who worked on that magazine, and she had a mainstream job and an unregulated sex industry job and did both at full time, and still put hours into writing and increasing service availability for sex workers. the first thing girls look for when they want to enter the industry here is an industry veteran who will show them the ropes. does professional regulation demotivate organized activity (i think of our activity here as akin to a union)? is new england a shame-free bubble where we can be real about our careers and still be respected by society? it’s got my brain racing with questions and comparisons and curiosities! and yes, i do acknowledge that to a degree the reason it seems like everyone here is so much more active is really just because i was so active; but i think there is a lot more to it than that. there are other ways comparing our industry atmospheres has shocked me, but this is another one. :p

Tell me what you're thinking...
and oh, if you want a pic to show with your comment, go get a gravatar!